Neither the Islamic World nor the Western World are monoliths. They don’t even belong to the same class. Islam is a religion. West hardly is. More damaging to the idea is the fact that many westerners are Muslims.
The phrase, “Islam vs West,” unjustly sweeps every person, every idea and every ideology in the West under one garb.
If we look closely enough, actually much of what is called “Western Civilization” draws from “Islamic Civilization.” Where do you think the Renaissance philosophers got the inspiration that the clergy do not hold Absolute power and Authority?
Or call into mind the influence Islam had in the scientific adventures of Europe!
Much unwilling we are to acknowledge the fact, but the Western Civilization (I am referring to the moral codes universally accepted in the West) has much in common with Islam (again I am referring to moral codes universally accepted in Islamic world.)
Life is held precious in both. There are some form of freedom of speech in both (but both sets some limits to it. You may have to go to jail in the West if you say “Holocaust did not happen.”) Rule of law is common to both, even the ruler is, in principle, subject to rule of law.
I am of the opinion that we are actually in the same boat. And if we make a hole for the “others” to sink, we too are destined for the same fate.
The most important thing to realize that it is homo sapiens we are talking about. On both sides. If there are actually two sides.
One group of people want control over resources another group is sitting on. So the conflict is shaped along ethnic, religious, language and other barriers.
Therefore, it is true that religious identity gets used in shaping the conflict. Sometimes religion lends legitimacy to conflicts, too. But they rarely are the cause of conflicts.
The real reason why people fight is control over resources. Geography. Let ideas have their own discourse, and let geography do the same, but for God’s sake, don’t confuse them.
I don’t buy into the idea of of “Islam vs West.”
“If we look closely enough, actually much of what is called “Western Civilization” draws from “Islamic Civilization.”
The above statement is misleading.
The Chinese invented Spagetti, Pizza (scallion pancakes) and gun-powder. Does that also mean that “Western” civilization drew much of its core from the “Buddhists”?
While it is true that once upon a time, the Catholic Church was more totalitarian then the Muslim leadership, that trend was revered as result of the invention of the printing-press and today we are dealing with an entirely different situation.
The problem with most religions is that they are organically anti-evolutionary–while the world continues to evolve, physically, emotionally and spiritually. Though it may think otherwise, the given religion CAN NOT control (or impeade) evolution, any more then it could stop a tide in the ocean. Sooner or later, the religion will either adjust or fall, at its own discretion. In the mean time, it is ALL our jobs to keep the damage to an absolute minimum.
Mr. Mohammed made a very profound statement when he claimed to be the last and final messenger of God, who can neither be contridicted or revised. I humbly disagree.
“The Chinese invented Spagetti, Pizza (scallion pancakes) and gun-powder. Does that also mean that “Western” civilization drew much of its core from the “Buddhists”?”
The Chinese and Indians did indeed have an influence on Western civilization, but that influence comes nowhere near to the huge amount of influence the Islamic world had over medieval Europe.
Almost everything from Western arts & architecture, to Western literature & philosophy, to Western science & technology, was heavily influenced by the Islamic world. Furthermore, the Islamic world was itself heavily influenced by Greek thought at one time, just as Greek civilization was heavily influenced by the ancient Near East.
In other words, Islamic civilization and Western civilization both share the same roots.
[...] is on a blog hiatus, but don’t miss this older post about why he feels the “West vs Islam” is a false dichotomy. [...]
“Much unwilling we are to acknowledge the fact, but the Western Civilization (I am referring to the moral codes universally accepted in the West) has much in common with Islam (again I am referring to moral codes universally accepted in Islamic world.)”
This is a statement that I agree with strongly. Both believe that their form of life, to put it incredibly simply, is the right path and the path of the other is wrong.
It is this that I believe propogates the very real conflict that exists between Islam and the West.
It is undeniable that both cultures a striving for domination of thought. Furthermore, it is undeniable that there are fundamental differences in this thought. There we have the conflict. It is real and it is dangerous. At the moment the West has the upperhand. The West is more democratic and thus more tolerant, not completely tolerant but more tolerant than many Islamic nations nonetheless. I would not like to imagine what the world would be like if an intolerant civilization was the driving force of humanity…
“Neither the Islamic World nor the Western World are monoliths. They don’t even belong to the same class. ” I strongly disagree with this statement, as Islamic World is not just Muslim religion, nor Western World is just Cristian religion. These are two civilizations, both containing their religious beliefs, cultural, economical, technological principles and so on.. So saying that they differ in class or category is rather incorrect.
I also disagree with this statement: “The phrase, “Islam vs West,” unjustly sweeps every person, every idea and every ideology in the West under one garb.”. Have You ever thought what makes one nation to become a civilization? Yes, it’s writing, technology, economy, religion or technology.. But it all comes later, after society creates it’s own elite. Have slaves in ancient Greece thought about philosophy? Have serf in Russian empire thought “It would be great to have a bridge over this river.” ? The answer is no. You kill all the elite in one civilization, you kill civilization. Imagine what would have happened if someone had eliminated all the boyars in Poland, during the middle ages? I’m afraid “back to stone age”, that what would have happened: no education, no writing, no science, no religion, no economy, no nothing…. Anyway, in modern societies the concept of elite has been increased through society. Frankly,today the majority of voters, whose party wins, are the elite. Though, of course this would be accurate in the theory, but now corruption spoils everything.
Another statement I disagree with is “much of what is called “Western Civilization” draws from “Islamic Civilization”. You forget, that Western civilization is basically a creation of three elements: Greek philosophy, Roman law, Christianity. Western Civilization is not just America, you know. Whole western Europe is also a Western World. What you say the “Western Civilization draws from Islamic Civilization” is connected with moral codes and statements, that originates form same roots as Christianity. So, if you want to say, that we like brothers and sisters, okey, I couldn’t agree with you more. Yet again, on the technological side, through out history, there was trading, not only economical, but technological too. So, this means, when someone invents a fork, he keeps the copyright, but fork goes to everybody, who thinks, that it’s a great invention. And this works both ways: I create then You take and when You create then I take.
In the end, You speak truth. We’re all people, we have our beliefs and rights. It’s up to us how we wish to see the world. And the most importantly, treat one as you would like he treated you. It is not my truth or Your truth, it’s universal truth.
..WOW
west vs islam could probably be a backlash of the crusades, that europeans basically fought b/c the extra children of the bourgeoisie classes had nothing better to do but enlist into the army. Also, know that when modern european or western history began it was also the end of wars based on religion. Meaning if someone were to untrue statements on either side of oposition about westerners beign to imposing and tryign to change muslim people into westerners or muslims trying to blow americans up, they would terribly be wrong. Truth is, the world is corrupt, every war is fought for economical and money reasons, peopel ahve recently used god to justify what they have done, so what they have done, seems just. Another thing i would like to point out is that, western civilzation is way to imposing, this may contradict to what i said earlier, but we screwed the native americas over, the indians, chinese, south america, and africa over.
If muslim people were to come into our country and tell us we were idiots and our governments is completely retarded, what would your reaction be? What would your reaction be if your people were killed? what would your reaction be if your government was changed for better/worse? What would you feel?
also america isn’t affected by this as much as indians are, indians would have been a world power if Britain didn’t exploit it because it was literally 3 centuries ahead of europe before they came, because they had plumbing, aqueducts, standardized money, almost 99% literacy rate, THEN europeans came, and now its one of the poorest countries today