An Interview with Lena Khan

I talked to Lena Khan a long time ago immediately after she won the One Nation contest for IJTEMA.NET.

As we have not gotten rid of the annoying bug there, I shall publish it here, now. For some reason, the podcast that we wanted never materialized. Therefore we are publishing a concize transcript of the discussion between Lena Khan and me.

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As-Salamu Alaikum, how are you?

Lena Khan

• Wa’Alaikum as-Salam. Good, how are you?

Okay, so you are a professional, right? You were in the UCLA film school?

• Yeah!

So you are planning to be in films full time.

• Yes!

First tell me how your interests in films began..

• I actually did my undergraduate degree, my bachelors’, in UCLA, in political science and history. And at the time I was studying, I was going to go to the graduate school, and study in one of those fields. But it seems here, a lot of public get a lot of their knowledge about different cultures, world issues, or history- from the media. They get it from movies or they get it from TV. So the people here will know a lot about those issues if you made a movie about them than when they were teaching about them in school. So I thought if I wanted to educate people, instead of becoming a professor, I would actually make the movies that gave a lot of those stereotypes and misinformation [sic].

So you think that these movies make a better connection with people’s minds than a professor’s lecture!

• For the majority of people I think so. I mean there are some people that relate extremely well to academia. But for the majority of American [unclear], they connect extremely well to, well, movies. So people here will know a lot about Rwanda, because they made a movie called hotel Rwanda; but they won’t know about Sudan- because nobody has made a good movie about it. That’s the way people work here. The only thing they know about Muslims for instance, come from movies. They come from movies like The Siege, or Executive Decision where Muslims are shown as terrorists! Or they come from the news or TV shows. And until they see something different in movies, then that’s really what they connect to.

Are we talking about your College?

• Ah, I mean… what do you mean?

Meaning, people in academia?

• No, no. I meant the majority of the American people connect to movies than they do to intellectuals or… [indaudible].

By majority of American people you mean the common people. You are not talking about the campus?

• No, I am talking about maybe a lot of people on the Campus but mostly the common people. So most of them connect better, and want to learn more from TV shows.

How does that compare with people in your College?

• The people in the College… it’s very similar. Most of them are only interested about things if there is a movie or a TV show, or something behind it; and only a small percentage of them really really learn from [inaudible]. So they the small percentage, they learn about Islam maybe in humanities class, and then see a movie with Muslims as terrorists, then they are more inclined to adopt the view that Muslims are terrorists! Even though they study the religion!

I think I agree with that. I think people think both emotionally as well rationally. So movies tend to affect how people make emotional decision. So that really plays into this.

• Right.

At what point did you decide that you are going to take up movies?

• I decided right at the time when I finished my degree in political science and history. I think at the time maybe the movie Hotel Rwanda had come, and I started paying attention to that- because in America there was a movement to spread awareness about what is happening in Darfur. And the person who was leading that movement was the actor Don Cheadle who was the star in Hotel Rwanda. And I thought it is interesting because the only reason people are listning to this man, why he is becoming so popular is because he was in this movie. He isn’t educated about this topic, he isn’t a professor. He doesn’t have any authority other than the fact that he was in this movie! So movies are just so powerful here. That’s when I decided that instead of going into teaching or becoming a professor, I will apply to the film school.

Did you have any interest in movies from before that?

• Yeah! I had always a bit of a hobby in making my own small video projects. I always helped the Muslim Student Association to make their videos…

Sorry, I am talking about watching movies!

• Oh, of course! I grew up watching movies- all different sorts of them!

But you are a hijabi, right?

• Mmm… Yes!

You know, I have heard �movies and all are haram� and stuff! How do you face that?

• Hmm, I don’t think you classify entire genre of movies as haram. It depends on what’s in the movies! And all the movies that I want to make and all the movies I have made- they don’t have any scenes between a man and a woman, they don’t have any bad language… they don’t have anything inappropriate! So I don’t really think… unless you are of the opinion that images themselves are haram, then I don’t think call them haram.

What do you think of the argument that sometimes scenes between man and a woman becomes necessary? I mean… have you watched “Talk to Her”? By Pedro Almodovar?

• Oh, no, haven’t seen that movie yet!

Oh, okay! So you know, to make a movie like that, people might argue that you have to incorporate some sex scenes!

• Right! There have been plenty of movies where they find ways… sometimes people infer [inaudible] and I think it’s very possible. I think there’s a lot of ways that show more mature ideas- but they don’t show anything inappropriate with them. Because here, nobody minds if you put inappropriate scenes, so nobody chooses to restrain themselves! But it is an option. Obviously it is a little bit more difficult. You know it’s a littlebit more difficult, but you have to figure out an artistic way to get around that.

It’s more demanding on your imagination…

• Yes!

For example, you know, one of the classic scenes I remember is when and a man and woman gets together, the camera moves away to a cat, and the cat closes his eyes. It’s very cute and it’s very indicative.

• Right! So that’s a good example. For example, there was a very popular TV show- and this a strange thing to use as an example because it is not a romance- but the TV show… the X-files. When I was growing up or atleast I was in high school the X-files was a very popular show. And what’s interesting is that the [inaudible] they voted the romance between the two main characters as the Best Romance on Television. But the intersting thing was, those two characters never even touched each other- in a romantic way- on the show. Yet the entire American public voted that as the best romance on television. It was the subtle ways they showed it! People were using their imagination when they were writing the show. So I think there are definitely ways to get around it.

And getting back to movies, movies from which part of the world appeals to you most?… Do you watch Iranian movies for example?

• I have watched some Indian movies, I haven’t watched too many of them. Generally I haven’t liked too many of them. It’s a very popular idea over here that Bollywood has very many resources but doesn’t use many of them. It is a very popular opinion here that for the most part they are trying to just make a lot of money. And are not trying to make as high quality of movies.

Mmm Hmm.. but I was actually asking about Iranian movies- Majid Majidi for example…

• Yeah, he is one of my favourite directors. Children of Heaven is one of my favourite movies.

Oh, I just love that movie.

• Yeah, that is a magnificent movie. Because it just relies on the story to make it such a captivating! That’s why I think it’s one of my favourite. It’s a movie that doesn’t have much money in it… it doesn’t have any special effects… it doesn’t have any strong fight scenes or anything like that… but it lets you in to how the characters are like, and tells you how their life is like and it really involves you in the story… and gets you more interested in the movie than you would be in a high budget movie!

The way they show brothers and sisters relating to each other… for example when the sister is angry and this guy goes behind her calling “are you still mad at me?” They way he says that… that’s great!

• Even the scene when they are in the house and they are exchanging notes between each other.

Yeah! That’s one of the best scenes I have seen. Have you seen “A taste of cherry” by Kiarostami?

• Yea, I have. That’s the one where a man is trying to kill himself?

Yea, right!

• Yes I have seen that.

What do you think about that?

• Mmm… that movie I think has exactly the same strengths. It’s different, it’s focussing on only one character. But by the end of the movie you get a very strong sense of that character and what he’s like. And to be able to do that… without using any [inaudible] is I think a very good thing. I think Iranian cinema, after American cinema… is my favourite.

And… where else?

• Say that again?

I mean where else do you like movies from?

• Hmm… I don’t like them. I don’t mind them as much as I mind a scene between a man and a woman. So I would use, if need be, if I had a scene about war… [inaudible]. I like some violent movies… I suppose… I liked the movie the Sleepers… one of the different war movies. I like the Kite Runner… So I don’t like extremely violent movies… but… I like many of them.

So have you watched this film. “City of God?”

• The Brazilian one right? No I haven’t seen that yet!

That’s very violent. It shows people being shot at cold blooded. Have you watched Passion of the Christ?

• Yes! And even the movie Hotel Rwanda, and I thought they were good movies! Because people see violence… I don’t know how it is in other countries… I have only lived in America… and I have spent some time in Egypt. But… here people are more sad… they are more affected by movies than they are about real life! So when they see they don’t feel as much. But when they see something like the Hotel Rwanda, then people might actually cry about it! Which is very interesting because people will cry over fictional characters, but they won’t cry over real people.

Probably those “real people” are not real to them! You know! In the movie they can see them laugh, see them cry. When they hear about people being killed in Palestine or Israel, you can’t really see that person. That’s just a number to them, or just a name.

• Yeah! Right!

And that is probably why Movies have such immense amount of influence!

• Right!

Coming back to your work, I have seen only three of your works, all three of them are very small [sic]- one minute to five minute ones.

• Yeah. Because the contest only asked for movies that were only five minutes long.

Have you made any longer ones? Full fledged movies?

• Yeah. I haven’t made… I am working on a full length feature right now, it’s in pre-production. But other than that, you know, usually thirty minutes or forty minutes or fifty minutes. They are not online because they are currently going to film festivals.

I’d like to know more about them.

• One of the films that is currently going to film festivals is called circumstance. You can watch it if you go to these film festivals. That is the story of a homeless… that is a true story… it’s based on a homeless veteran on Los Angeles who tries to get back on his feet. Who tries to get a job, has a family and struggles in doing that… Yeah, that is one of ‘em. There is another movie which is a psychological drama between two different gangs within a juvenile detention facility. Kind of like prison for children. And that is another one. Because those are two big issues that are in America right now.

You seem to be drawn towards solving problems!

• Yeah! That’s why I got into movies.

And how do you think your films have been received?

• So far they have been… especially in the past year they have been received very well. The contest helped a lot in getting my name out and things like that. And in the fastivals they have been doing very well. Circumstance has won couple of different fastivals. I just started sending them, so I shall start see more of the results in May and June and July. But so far they have been doing well. They have been accepted into different film fastivals. Now they are competing. So… I am hopeful about them.

Have you heard back from any directors from Hollywood?

• Yeah. I have been recently working with David Fincher who directed films like Zodiac and Fight Club. And he was interested in helping me out, and… you know… things of that nature. And then I will be working in the next couple ‘o weeks in the next Bradd Pitt movie. I can’t say much about what that’s about though, because we are not allowed to.

That is fine.

• But those are the people I have heard from.

What about making the short movies- let’s come to the short ones I have actually seen. Land of Paradise, for example. How do you form these ideas? Where does the inspiration come from?

• Mmm… I always make sure to keep up on the news, so I always watch what’s going on around here. So I probably spend an hour or so reading… not just news, but blogs and things like that, just to see the kind of problems with the country. Then I try to get out a lot. Talk to different people, and see what kind of things are happening in the society right now. And I always have a notepad with me, and you always try to notice things. You notice when people are frustrated. You notice what kinds of things are troubling people now-a-days. And you just try to figure out what kind of people wish they could tell everybody- and then you put that into your movie.

But what about things that people want to know about? The other side?

• Muslims? They don’t know anything about Muslims! So I what I try to do is, instead of… I would like to make a movie that has a main Muslim character. But I also try to make movies that are not necessarily about Muslims, but have a character… a good character… who is Muslim. Because then people don’t feel they are being preached to. And because people don’t know anything about Muslims.

For example Bassem, I can identify quite strongly with him. It’s a very well told story for such a small amount of time. Is he a real character?

• No, that was based on the Muslim experience. And we were trying to figure- me and my cinematographer- what is the Muslim experience like! And we noticed a lot of these movies submitted to the contest was about Muslims being locked up, or being held up by Airport security or things of that nature. But the biggest part of the Muslim experience is always worrying- the American experience. When they will see a Muslim, they will think that all Muslims are like that. So if they see a rude Muslim, they will think all Muslims are like that! So American Muslims here have to be very careful. They are always worrying about… they are trying very hard to maintain their appearances. So that’s what that movie was based on.

So most people know only one Muslim? In their daily interactions?

• Some of them don’t know any Muslims! For the majority of the states, they don’t have very many Muslims at all. They don’t have interact with Muslims. I live in a state that has a lot more Muslims, but a lot of states aren’t like that!

You mean California.

• Yes, California.

What about other people who are trying to get the message out? Like Baba Ali or Riazat Butt?

• I have seen Baba Ali’s work.

What do you think of Baba Ali?

• Baba Ali, for what he is doing, does it very well. He does small youtube clips that educate a lot of people and I believe he has a lot of people who watch them. He doesn’t really do films and TV work. He’s working on it right now. And I hope he does well. But I think it will take him a little bit longer to develop something. He’s fund-raising right now for a new movie. I think he has the potential to do some good work. I think what he has to do is try to figure out how he can appeal to more mainstream audiences who aren’t Muslim.

What are your future plans?

• Right now I am working at a production company, and I will continue doing that, and see what could I do there, insha’Allah. And after that I am working on a feature film. It will take a while, because of a little bit of a documentary work, and a little… lot of fictional work. And I will make couple of short movies, about forty minutes long… and we’ll see what happens from there!

Do you plan to make any documentary?

• Not at the moment. Because for me personally, a lot of people don’t watch them as much. People who do watch them, are already a little bit of that opinion. So I wanted to make films to educate people about things that maybe they didn’t agree with. So I don’t think I’ll be doing that for a while.

But, you know… sometime you have to educate people… I have some interest in history, especially history of science… I was so surprised to know that people had done so much from this world, and I didn’t know anything about it from before. In fact I am from Science background. So… I was rather… feeling betrayed! I would have been a lot happier if somebody had told me about it.

• No I know documentary works are important. I just don’t do them because I know a lot more Muslim filmmakers who are specializing in documentary and not very much of those who are doing fictional work. And that’s why I don’t want to do them.

What would you say to somebody who’s going to start making movies?

• Mmm… What country are they in? [laughs]

Let’s say US.

• If they are in the US, they should do two things. They should just start making movies even if they don’t have very much money. Or if they are writer, just start writing. If you are a filmmaker or director, just do what you are doing and craft your talent. Just figure out what kind of stories you want to tell, and start making them. And, for most of the countries, except a few, start meeting people. You have to know people in this business. So start interning with small companies. Start meeting people. Just being friendly and making more contacts.

What about India?

• Start making your movies, try sending them to small producers… and try to make some contacts here in America. Try to attend some online courses that are available. Because it gives you a big pool for that sort of knowledge and contacts. So even if it means emailing a few producers.

You know, there is this huge Market… Muslims living in Muslim countries. They almost entirely depend on Hollywood or Bollywood for movies. And they are disconcerted about the way Muslims are portrayed. So what would you say to somebody in Pakistan?

• Much the same thing- except that they should try to branch out to another country to make contact.

Okay, thank you and good luck. It was good talking to you.

• Thank you. Same to you. As-Salamu alaikum

Wa’Alaikum as-Salam.