I always like certain aspects of the European character. The values and standards, and the science. I was, as a child, astonished when I heard that people in some parts of Europe leave news-stands unattended. People come, pick up a newspaper and throw money into the box meant for the same purpose. I was impressed by their objective thinking. It seemed so far from what the mullah, waving his beard, was preaching.
Later when I became more aware of what Islam contained (and more and more unimpressed with the mullahs, atleast the ones that I saw till then), I came to know that these high moral standards (which, however, was not visible in inter-community or inter-country dealings) has a lot in common in Islamic standards. The mullahs always talked of some ‘Isa (peace on him and may God keep him) , I hardly had any idea that he is the same person as Jesus the Christ.
Though I respected Jesus for his teachings, I discovered , to my utter astonishment, that he is the same person as the unknown ‘Isa(PUBH) and that Jesus(PUBH) was a prophet. (This made my conviction, that one should speak in ‘language’ understandable to the audience, stronger.)
So there I was, I knew that the teachings of Jesus(PUBH) and Muhammad(PUBH) were the same, and that is why European morals were so close to Islamic ones. A new shock was yet to unfold.
Only very recently, a year ago, I discovered Europe’s (deliberately) forgotten Muslim past. That of Spain, of Cicily, of Greece, of Bulgaria and some other countries. I came to know that Spain, in particular the city of Cordoba, was the intellectual capital of Europe. And in the Muslim ruled Spain, Muslim, Christian and Jewish scholars worked shoulder to shoulder to unravel mysteries of God’s worlds.
I came to know how the Muslims sent exploration teams to all the world they knew. To recover the ancient books of wisdom. Then to study and question them, only to accept after a test of logic. They then translated these books into Arabic. Arabic was the official language of Spain, no European language was as developed as it was. Surely enough, lingua franca of those days was Arabic.
I thought of the renaissance as some sort of self-discovery of Europe’s own potential, which lay hidden during the period between the Greek School of Athens and the Renaissance. I never had a hint as to how much the Muslims had lent to the Europeans to this effect.
When we read science textbooks, it starts with Aristotle, and the comes to the post renaissance period of Galileo and Copernicus. It never tells us about al-Farabi (10th c.), Avicenna (11th c.), Averroes (12th c.), al-Ghazali (12th c.), Ash-Shatibi (13th c.) and Ibn Khaldun (14th c.). My knowledge about them is limited. I know a little about Averroes (whose original name is Ibn-Rushd), and effect of his line of thoughton the consciousness of the Renaissance is not small. (Is it not very symbolic that my spellchecker can identify Galileo, but is unhappy with al-Farabi and company?)
When the textbooks deal with mechanics, they are eager to tell us the European names of Aristotle, Galileo and Newton. When discussing optics and pin-hole camera, the silence about the relevant Arab names is almost eloquent.
It was a shock to me to learn that the European renaissance and the standards of democracy, equality and justice on which they stand were not result of parallel, unconnected history of teachings of two prophets, but result of two very related history. Two histories so close that they can not be called two histories. At most one and a half.
Europe is deceiving nobody but themselves by denying their connection to the Muslim world.
Muhammad Assad thinks (thought, actually; may Allah grant him peace, forgiveness and paradise) that this prejudice against Islam originated from the Crusades, when the then Pope made the people of Europe aware of the danger of Islam. In order to motivate them to fight to reclaim the Holy Land. He travelled length and breadth of Europe, to collect force to fight the infidels in the name of gentle Jesus. That imposed perception of the Musilms and Islam manages to survive till today.
UPDATE: The discussion on this thread has been really good. Go through if you have the time.
Related:
BBC Four : AN ISLAMIC HISTORY OF EUROPE
BBC Link: A Brief History of Islamic Spain (711-1492)
Al-Andalus
A history of Muslim conquered southern Spain
Muslim Heritage
Excellent history of the Muslim world
Actually, the ‘scientific culture’ that was cultivated in ancient Greece and Rome, was picked up in the medivals by the Arabs and Byzantine people and at the end it met the renaissance. The center of renaissance was Italy, which is in a way close to Spain, Egypt and Byzantine. However, the impact of the fall of Byzantine was more, since both the people of Byzantine and Italy used the same Roman language, and learned people of Byzantine took refuge in Italy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire
It is wrong to accuse medival Pope alone to be the reason of Islam-Christ problems, it was actually started by invasion of Spain by Arabs. Spanish people continuously fought against it and they still mention that as their event of victory (reconquista).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista
If it was a mere ‘conquest’ a band of 700 people would not be able to conquere a whole country. Historians found no evidence of violence in the entire process of conquest except in the beginning.
In fact it is now apparent that in many parts of Spain, people actually were welcoming the Muslims, from whom they were expecting a just and efficient rule, that will relieve them of the chaos that prevailed under the Vicigothic rule.
Spain did not continuously fight the Muslims. The situation was not colored in white and black. A lot of Christians held very high positions under the Muslim rule.
Many Christian scholars used to come to Spain. Many of them have recorded their high impression.
Even in the later years, during what is called the reconquest, which was at best a civil war, as many of the Christians fought alongside the Muslims.
It was Isabella and Ferdinand who saw it as a fight of Muslims against the Christians. They ordered in what is called the inquisition that left non-Catholics with three choices- to convert to Catholicism, or to leave the country, or to die.
Many of those killed of expartriated were native people of Spain, converts to Islam who tried to cling to their faith (click here).
There was no such a thing during the Muslim rule.
I would suggest you see this video documentary. It will take 2 hours from your life, but will enrich you, definitely.
And/Or you can watch this 1:30 hours BBC documentary.
About the Scientific Culture.
The Muslims were enriched and enlighted by the Greek and Roman texts, true. You can not their their own contributions. I will try to summarize what they did, apart from preserving and translating the Greek and Sanskrit and other books of knowledge.
Science, before Muslims, tended to be theoretical. It was Muslims who started the doctrine of Science based on Experiements in controlled environment.
They started a number of branches of Science. For example chemistry, algebra and modern madicine.
Now don’t get me wrong, I am not saying renaissance was solely because of Muslims. I am saying is Muslims stimulated renaissance to a large extent, and it is deliberately not talked of.
I have tried to summarize some of these once before.
I don’t know the Indian Muslim clerics’ educational background, but I can’t imagine being different than rest of the world.
Last week I posted segment from this book:
http://tinyurl.com/yktff4
describing a young man’s education process at young age in al-Andalus:
“It was truly fortunate for me that God should choose that, in my childhood, youth and young manhood, my father should give me teachers to instruct me in the Quran, so that by the age of nine I knew it perfectly. He then set three teachers over me: one to perfect my knowledge of the Quran; another to teach me the Arabic language; and the third to do the same in mathematics. So it was that I reached the age of sixteen familiar with ten different ways of reading the Quran, in all aspects of assimilation, articulation, attenuation, final vocalisation, pausing, reduction, finalisation, softening and velarisation.
I also learned the different facets of language, and I read works of poetry by both ancient and modern Arabs. I heard explanations of the divisions of inheritance and hadith. I was given lessons on algebra, in addition to the Book of Euclid and other works of geometry. I learned the three astronomical tables, and how to use the astrolable. My three tutors allowed me to rest from the early afternoon until the following day; yet I never granted myself any rest, and continued to read or take notes. All this in the prime of my youth.”
I dare to say that today’s top Muslim clerics received half of what this young man’s education, and it does not help that being an Imam or a theologian is not well-regarded in the eyes of Muslims. What it counts is being a doctor or a lawyer. So it always the poor kids or thoese who have little means who choose to be clerics with lack of support or some encouragement from the society.
And when Islam (Qur’an and Sunnah) is the foundation of our life, then why are we surprised of our achievements?
Every great Muslim scientists or other fields from lost time had the basic education as the young age.
And when some Western Egyptologs (an article I read today) claim that Egyptian hieroglyphs reveal what Qur’an always Said:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/josephdetail.html
I had no idea who Averroes and Avicenna were…so thanks for that information Isha! 🙂
gess
Thanks for all the informations! It was great to read that page of an Imam’s diary.
Sumera
You knew the names before?!!! Even that was a great achievement.
Forgot to add: man’s
“as the young age”
I don’t think he was an Imam. He was giving a report on education training. You will the exact sources tomorrow, Insha’Allah
Okay!
I had heard of them – I read a lot but take in very little!! At least now I know their “arab” names – reading up on them will make sense!
oh and welcome to WordPress! Its so much more chic than blobber~ (purposely misspelt!)
Hey, what do you mean by ‘reading up on them will make sense’? Arn’t you falling into the same trap as the Europeans have fallen into?
I know I am being too hard, but please give it a thought!
And Ah! yes, wordpress feels much better. It’s much more cleaner here. Thank you.
The young boy was Ibn Khaldun and the quote was cited from the book : Ibn al-‘Arabi, Al-‘Awasin, p. 11
More on Ibn Khaldun:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Khaldun
Mash’Allah… Ibn Khaledun!
Quite an example!
Can’t say Wikipedia is the right place to look sources. Everyone can edit and write. Especially on subject on Islam, we have to be on guard.
The book I’m reading is written by a highly regarded Western Scholar, and I have never came across anything what is written on Wikipedia.
Well, look who is quoting Ibn Khaldun. Non other than Mr. Bernard Lewis. I knew it!
Is there any good written or an atom about Islam in Wikipedia?
More on Bernard Lewis and his ilk:
http://gess.wordpress.com/2006/08/06/you-are-now-entering-eurabia/
“Propaganda does not deceive people; it merely helps them to deceive themselves”
If Muslims are unaware of history (which most of them are) and do not participate (which they do not) in these processes like making of wikipedia, then that (bias against them) will happen.
Identity is a thing nobody can shrug off.
Propaganda does not deceive people; it merely helps them to deceive themselves, yes, indeed.
By making more sense I mean I know who they are referring to and which era they are talking about.
History, particularly dates, series of events, locations etc have a habit of dropping from memory. I like having things linking to one another, in a chain format – retains in my spongy brain better.
Salaams,
I too was shocked and amazed when i first came across the history is Islam in Europe, and its role in shaping the cultural and scientific revolution therein.
However, it also depresses me a little. I actually get a little annoyed now when people tout our glorious history as evidence for the beauty of Islam, simply because it is just that, history. Virtually every civilisation can be proud of some great moment they experienced in the past.
The difference with Islam is that it doesn’t have to be in the past – we can be the envy of the world again, at least in the countries with a Muslim majority, where Islam already has a stronghold. It isn’t as if such countries are void of an intelligentsia; it is just that the indigenous intelligentsia are moving on to greener pastures, to escape regional instability.
How many doctors and engineers have fled Lebanon and Iraq since their respective wars? Who is left to rebuild the land, except outsiders who are out to rape the resources for their own benefit?
Of course, reaching the pinnacle of civilization will take time and a coordinated effort, as it involves a complete shift in the mentality of the population, or at least, the powers that control the nation.
I watched an intriguing series of programmes this week about Thatcherism (political stratagem of Margarat Thatcher, ex-priminister of UK from the 80s). I’m not sure how accurate the details of the programme were, but it seemed to suggest that the politics and economics of an entire nation was influenced by a handful of key intellectuals, that wanted a capitalist free market, rather than a socialist government. And they suceeded in their aims, though it took a couple of decades. They were so successful that most of the policies they introduced are still in place under the current Labour government (who at the time were pro-socialism; not so much now under Tony Blair).
Anyway, i know very little about politics, but it seems great things can be achieved in a short space of time if you know the right people, and how to play the “game”.
Wa’salam
Sumera
Thanks for the clarification. Soothes my nerves. 😛
iMuslim
Very discreet points. Let me clarify myself. I am not trying to prove that Islam is good by pointing to history. Rather, I am trying to speak about history not generally spoken of(for understandable reasons).
I actually became a lot more confident when I came to know of these histories, so carefully hidden from us. Hope is, rather than making us ‘past happy’ these achivements should inspire us to aspire once more.
The intellectuals flee for a number of reasons. If you look at very recent history. That of past hundred years or so: Iraq, Egypt and vast other Muslim land was ruled by the British. They had their own interests. Many puppet goverments on Arab lands dislike intellectuals very much. They take care of the universities, so that the breed can not reproduce.
The situation is better now than it was a hundred years ago. This is the time to rebuild.
And I have not done justice to the provocative question: where are the Muslim intellectuals and reformers?
Why are they running away?
Manas,
Did you record problems to comment here on wordpress?
gess,
The post dialectic to Manas’s posting has been very informative, and though I’m not well read on this subject I do try to keep abreast of what I can get my hands on in terms of books and articles. One of the books I read was Bernard Lewis’s much prescribed textbook that I reviewed on my blog a while ago; you may want to check it out at
http://iditis.blogspot.com/2006/02/americas-greatest-middle-east-sage.html
gess
No, I did not notice any so far. Thank God!
IMeMy
Thanks for the link. I read the review. I can suggest you another book, “Road to Mecca” by Muhammad Asad. A Jewish convert to Islam, he was envoy of Pakistan to UN at some time. Above all, a very good writer.
The program was truly awesome (BBC documentory). It really changes a lot of past ideas of mine.I want a write up from you on why they lost their edge. Once I read one such article by Mahathir Mohammed, but lost the link now.
I will definitely try my best, inshaAllah. If you can find the link to the article by Mahathir Mohammad, please forward it to me.
Got it at last. It’s totally in sync with your writing.
http://www.al-huda.com/Article_11of46.htm
Where I see racism is the projection of Jews as a ‘single community’ … that is totally untrue. Albert Einstein was a Jew, so was this loooong list of Nobel prize winners …
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_Nobel_Prize_winners
I will refuse to see all of them as a part of single and monolithic society. In fact they are not like that. Undermining the ‘individual’ strength and projecting the ‘strength’ of race is of course a racism …
I agree with you that projecting the jews as a single monolith is wrong.
Yet I don’t think taking him literally is right. My impression is he is not a racist. His past record does not suggest that.
I feel it is a ploy of the zionist lobby, and ADL seems to be sympathetic to them anyway, to discredit Mahathir.
Ahhhhh, those nobel prizzzze winnerZzzzz!
Actually, I’m in the middle of an article about race and science. Stay in tune and LEARN!
Speaking of India, this is what a very wise man wrote on atime.com:
“—usual inane commentaries on Muslims is aptly represented by the quote attributed to the Prince of Peace, “Ye know them by their fruits”….conveniently and/or ignorantly does not employ his statistical references to the non-Muslim population of China, India and other parts of the non so-called Western cultures [that he] assumes includes an exclusive number of [Jews and Christians]. It is highly probable that the other side of the statistical references could be explained in presuming that the Nobel group has had a selection process that was principally exclusionary. In referencing the connection between people and their fruits, a most striking example is the one alluding to what barefooted Lebanese children call the “cluster bombs” left behind”
“I agree with you that projecting the jews as a single monolith is wrong.”
It is also wrong for Israel to do this; to pretend as if it is acting on behalf of, and thus supported by, all the Jews, whether they live in Israel or in diaspora. That is clearly not true, and many Jews are angry about being misrepresented by this terrorist state.
However, i do believe, due to misinformation and social pressure, many diaspora Jews (and let us not forget those lovely evangelical Christians) are convinced that Israel is justified in all its actions. I compare it to how many “peace-loving” Muslims and non-Muslims, were pro-Hizbullah during the recent Lebanon-Israeli clash; even when Hizbullah were firing rockets into civilian terrotories. They would try to justify Hizbullah’s actions by saying “these rockets are toys, they have no significant impact”. Tell that to the children hiding in their basements for weeks on end.
Targeting of civilians is wrong, wrong, wrong – no matter how big or small your weapons are; it is the intention that is damning, not the death toll.
I was far more impressed by the guerilla tactics of Hizbullah, that forced well-armed Israeli soldiers back to their borders; that is real men fighting.
***
Manas, i must apologize… i have a horrible habit of starting on one topic, then ending somewhere completely different!! I should be more concise with my points.
P.S., i think i was completely off-topic with my last comment!!! Israel was on my mind at the time.
P.P.S., gess – what is up with your new logo?! A smoking monkey?! Is that a message to smokers: You guys are no better than monkeys! Or a message to monkeys: Hey fellas, light up! Or did you just find the photo rather amusing? Do tell!
iMuslim you definitely not strayed from the topic, but you have raised a very important point.
The boundary between the jews and zionists; the boundary between the Jews and Israel and the boundary between Muslims and Al-Qaeda are deliberately blurred. By those who control the media.
So whenever something is said against Israel, it is called anti-Semitism.
That is why Islam asks one to see one’s belonging through God. One should love his country because of his love for God. This will stop him from supporting nationalistic menaces.
gess
The Nobel committe is known to have a little bias. I know atleast one Indian scientist, GNR, who deserved one, but was not given. Given that, those who were given the prize, Jew or not, invariably have done good work in their fields.
Even now, one of the best minds I know, is a Jew- Noam Chomsky.
Manas,
I just came home and tired. Insha’Allah, I’ll continue tomorrow.
Make Dua for me, because I have an important meeting.for tomorrow.
Wa’assalamu Aleikum.
“Even now, one of the best minds I know, is a Jew- Noam Chomsky.” That goes without a doubt but since he’s both a great social scientist and a great linguist I am a bit wary of the way he uses language to manipulate public opinion in his writings. A few months ago I read his “Imperial Ambitions” and that corroborated my wariness of this unparalleled maestro!
You can check out the review for the book here:
http://iditis.blogspot.com/2006/09/noam-chomsky-imperial-ambitions.html
I know atleast one Indian scientist, GNR, who deserved one, but was not given. – My point was not to discuss the bias of Nobel committee. Anyway you cannot ignore the contribution of these Jewish scientists to world population.
I feel it is a ploy of the zionist lobby, and ADL seems to be sympathetic to them anyway, to discredit Mahathir. – Does it mean the Mahathir did not talk about those? See the BBC coverage if you don’t trust ADL.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3196234.stm
From wiki –
“Mahathir is regarded by many, especially in the West, as an anti-Semite. In 1984, his government banned the performance of works by the Jewish composer Ernest Bloch, during a visit by the New York Philharmonic, specifically because of Bloch’s religion. The Orchestra responded by refusing to play in Malaysia [5].
In 1997, during the financial crisis, he attributed the collapse of the Malaysian ringgit to a conspiracy of Jews against a prosperous Muslim state: “The Jews robbed the Palestinians of everything, but in Malaysia they could not do so, hence they do this, depress the ringgit.” Under strong international criticism, he issued a partial retraction, but not in Malay-language media sources [6].”
There can be two interpretations of what he said:
1. It may be that he makes some anti-Jew statements. If that is so, that is a dark side of him and there can be not argument about that, not even on the grounds of Israeli atrocities.
(1. All Israelis do not support those atrocities.
2. There are a number of Jews who are even against the state of Israel.)
2. It may be that he was, by the term Jews, referring to the aggressive ones, who form the majority of Jews anyway. (I am sure you do not get alarmed when somebody says: Muslim societies are bound in custom, because it is in general true, though there are exceptions). It is a fact that Israel is a country mostly populated by the Jews, and it’s leaders are Jew. My personal experience says many of the Jews are very unyielding to other’s sufferings. If the opinion polls are anything to go by, all the atrocities committed by Israel finds support in it’s people.
The Jewish lobby is very powerful in the US(See this too). They carry out many many hate propaganda, especially directed against Muslims. (Surprizingly, it is these Muslims who had protected them for centuries (again, you have to notice that I was talking in generality. there were some Muslims who hated them, but they formed minority)).
My personal experience says many of the Jews are very unyielding to other’s sufferings. –
again, how many Jews do you personally know before generalising them? Stop committing to racist comments. If they really are like that, there may be some cause inside that that we should try to remove.
It may be that he was, by the term Jews, referring to the aggressive ones, who form the majority of Jews anyway. –
May be, but not all those who’d listen to it would take it that way … that creates the problem.
Yup! I should be cautious before generalizing. In fact I know a number of Jews who are opposed too.
(I did not mean I know them personally, I don’t know a Jew personally).
I went on to make that statement because I saw results of some opinion polls. Again, one has to remember that they, the public, are fed with misinformation and distorted, one sided facts. Add to that the religious fanaticism.
Salaam Diganta,
I have no slightest doubt that these scientists you listed deserved their recognitions and even more, and I do believe 100% that they have done goodness to humanity.
Everytime when we discuss Islam or Muslims’ achievements in history or sometging else, I see this list to pop up. People forget that giving NPs existed hundred years. Are you comparing 100 years to human existence on this world?
Now, what I wrote earlier. Here are my sources:
From Troy Duster’s book: Backdoor to Eugenics.
(I really don’t want to misquote this great man and truly who is a rollemodel for many people. Without his works, the poor people in this world and those without voice would suffer from medicinal firms, and those who still advocate and practise eugenics. This book I’m quoting is about the history of Eugenics, starting from the Inquisition.
As you can see it’s a scholarly book.)
” For example, it has long been known that Jews do better in school than gentiles, and they also do better on IQ tests. However, during the first part of the twentieth century, Jews did so poorly on IQ tests that scientst testified as to their “genetic inferiority” before the U.S. Congress (Kamin, 1974:16-26). In fact, using this as a rationale Congress passed restrictive legislation in the 1920s that drastically reduced the immigration of Jews, other eastern European, and Italians from a flood to a mere trickle (Lieberson, 1980:17-12). Armed with two sets of “data” at two different historical periods, scientists have pursued the question of whether Jews are genetically inferior to gentiles, but ignored their potential genetic superiority”
” For many decades before “affirmative action” was in the lexicon, law schools and medical schools and Ivy League schools, including Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, blocked Jewish students from entry, despite the Jewish students’ superior grades and, later, superior IQ and entrance test scores.
….However, the history of Jews on IQ tests in the early part of the century was poor, and it was believed that introducing a standardized test would lower if not erase this grade point advantage.”
And when you, Diganta, use the list. You are standardizing the Muslims, and you might not know, but you are using the logic of Eugenics.
More on Troy Duster
http://sociology.fas.nyu.edu/object/troyduster
Sister iMuslim
I had no idea that my avatar might indicate support to smokers. No, I don’t smoke and can’t stand the smell of smoke. I chose the avatar simply because I like it . I think it’s sweet. Let’s hope the PETA don’t lurk me 😆 , 😆
Gess, I think you have mistaken my points. I was actually against taking Jews as monolithic community and aligning them with the Govt of Israel (Not even all Israelis).
Diganta,
If I have mistaken your points, my apology 🙂
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